Early DCS models - how many were made?

Discuss older Nikon-based Kodak digital SLRs, including DCS 100, DCS 200, NC2000, DCS 400/600/700-series, etc. Ask questions, post general comments, anecdotes, reviews and user tips.
Brian Sweeney
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 1:30 pm

Post by Brian Sweeney » Fri May 27, 2005 12:59 pm

Just to add the DCS200IR. It was essentially the monochrome-internal drive model with clear cover glass. The ISO settings stayed the same, but you had to use the +/- switch of the N8008s to compensate for sensitivity in the IR. I get good results with a -1 setting when using it "across the board" and -3ev when using an R60 filter. The N8008s SPD's see about half the spectrum that the KAF-1600 pickes up.

The price of the basic camera/charger and 28mm F2.8 lens was ~$12,500. Add in an external "Mass Hitch-Hiker" SCSI pack, 300mm F4 AF lens, 180mm F2.8 AF, and 20mm F2.8 AF and and the total hit $16,400.

Also, as first revealed here at nikonweb, the DCS200 actually had 1536x1024 images. The Twain drivers threw away 12 columns and 12 rows. Either the interpolation scheme on the color cameras could not compute a 6 pixel border, or the pixels in the outer edge had higher defect counts. Kodak used the best-of-the-best of the KAF1600's for the DCS200, (class zero?). The KAF1600 data sheets are still available.

Stan Disbrow
Posts: 579
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: all kodak nikon models to date

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri May 27, 2005 1:55 pm

Webmaster wrote:[
SCS 2000c 2000-Sep-01 1152x1728 Xena CMY 400-6400 Nikon F5
SCS2000c (typo?) What's this? Again, an unknown model?
Looks to me like it was either a development model, or perhaps a 'special', using a newer CMY CFA imager (than was in the 620x). It reads as being essentially what was sold as the DCS 720x.

It's not unusual for a company to produce low-volume 'specials' for a large customer and then leverage that development into a mainstream product.

For example, when I was with IBM, I worked on an internal PC-based controller (was part of a mainframe subsystem), that then became the PS/2 model 8581-US1 for the US Air Force (I have one of these alongside my prototype 5150 original PC) and was later produced as the PS/2 model 8595 server as a mainstream product.

While it took nearly a year from the time we made it as the internal controller variant until it hit the market as the mod 95 server, it was essentially the same product in all three forms. All that changed was the length of the option list and the label on the case.

I expect that some of these Kodak DSLR models in the list fit into a similar category. Given the low production rate of these cameras, they would lend themselves to all sorts of 'specials'. Plus, Kodak was at the 'bleeding edge' of the technology at the time, which means that improvements keep on coming. Just look at the main model sequence (DCS, 200, 400, 600) and this becomes clear. :)

I notice that the list is missing the 760m, which came out something like a month after the 760c, and cost $10,995.

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

kelbley
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 3:37 am
Location: USA

More Nostalgia

Post by kelbley » Sat May 28, 2005 7:12 am

:P
Thanks to the "secret squirrels" for posting the definitive list!..

I sent a note out to my home boys at Kodak today, letting them all know about this thread on the forum..

Everything prior to the DCS 200 (1992) is generally classified by the market as "DCS 100"..

There were many "special" models of these cameras that were not sold commercially... (and not listed here so far)...

The Nikonos RS versions are/were very sexy..
I don't believe that they were ever sold through "normal" channels...

The SCS 2000 was like a 720x on steroids, with a ton of sexy gaskets...
I don't believe that they were ever sold through "normal" channels...

-Jay
__________
Jay Kelbley
__________

Webmaster
Site Admin
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 4:12 pm
antispam: No
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: More Nostalgia

Post by Webmaster » Sat May 28, 2005 8:57 am

kelbley wrote::I sent a note out to my home boys at Kodak today, letting them all know about this thread on the forum..
Thanks Jay!

Like I've mentioned before, this information is going to be increasingly difficult to find as time passes by. Now is a great opportunity to collect as much information as possible about early DSLR history.

As far as I know, this is the first time ever that the digital Nikonos models and SCS 2000 have been described on the Internet (or elsewhere in public). Please correct me if I'm wrong. If so, this is what I as a journalist would consider a scoop! (At the time of this writing, these model numbers produces no hits on Google.)

If anyone at Kodak or elsewhere have some photos or further details about these cameras, please let me know. You can simply post it here, or click on the email button below.

Thanks again,
Jarle

Webmaster
Site Admin
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 4:12 pm
antispam: No
Location: Norway
Contact:

Digital Nikonos

Post by Webmaster » Tue May 31, 2005 2:09 pm

kelbley wrote:The Nikonos RS versions are/were very sexy..
I don't believe that they were ever sold through "normal" channels...
Here's Kodak's reply on the digital Nikonos models (DCS 425, 435):

"I'm sorry but those cameras never existed here at Eastman Kodak. We
never made cameras for that specific use. The information you have is
incorrect."

..which makes me even more determined to find some more details about these models.

Anyone?

Jarle

spreefurt
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: Germany

Post by spreefurt » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:51 pm

Some of the 7XX-Kodaks seem to be rarer than the earlier models, because production was interrupted by Nikon. The DCS 760 are about 5000 or a few more, but the DCS 720X seems to exist in not more than 1600 exemplars. The 760M will be much rarer.

Stan Disbrow
Posts: 579
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:25 pm

Hi,

There were, as I recall, 80 (yup, that's eighty) 760m units made, and only to order. Most of them went to industry. I almost bought the one talked about in this article:

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/c ... 760m.shtml

At the time, Pete's price tag was $8k, which was quite fair. However, after some serious thinking, I decided that my B&W photography was being served well enough by using a color model and then making use of a Photoshop B&W plug-in. I do like being able to apply various filters after the fact and not bothering with them during shooting (aka lazy).

Sometimes, though, I do regret not spending the dough and getting the durned thing. The dynamic range is much better than the color model. ;)

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

spreefurt
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: Germany

Post by spreefurt » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:44 pm

I only once saw a 760M on ebay. It was sold for about 2000 USD.

Not only the dynamic range, but also the resoltion should be better, because no color filter and no interpolation is necessary.

Maybe this is a chance for Nikon? What about a Nikon D200M?

Stan Disbrow
Posts: 579
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:11 pm

Hi,

I think that was Pete's 760m you're thinking of. He ended it early for a private sale, as I recall.

There's a procedure to take a D70 apart and clean off the color filter array from the surface of the sensor. That makes a mono camera.

Additionally, you can change the IR cut-off filter in front of the sensor for an IR bandpass filter and so create an IR model. There's been a lot of folks that have done this one.

This is fairly easy to do, actually, and there is no technical reason why Nikon couldn't produce variant models in the same manner. I suspect that the potential market for such variations is deemed to be too small to make business sense, and so such models don't exist. Probably never will, I expect.

I thought about picking up a D70 at one point and performing the mod, but then decided that I really do like shooting raw with a color sensor and then post-processing to B&W later.

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

Anssi Krooks
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:45 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland
Contact:

Post by Anssi Krooks » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:10 am

Stan Disbrow wrote:Hi,

...
There's a procedure to take a D70 apart and clean off the color filter array from the surface of the sensor. That makes a mono camera.
...
Stan
Hi!

This sounds like very interesting mod. Are you saying that it can be done at home without any special experience or tools? How about shooting with D70M, I guess you have to shoot raw and convert it without bayer interpolation, IIRC dcraw has this option.
Last edited by Anssi Krooks on Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
D1X, DCS PRO SLR/n, DCS 760, DCS 420c & Canon Pro70

Stan Disbrow
Posts: 579
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:23 pm

Hi,

Looks pretty easy to me. Of course, experience with working on microelectronics would always be a gret help with anything like this! ;)

Here's a link:

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/d70/ircut.htm

Shows how to go about doing it. Looks like a jewler's screwdriver set is all they're using in the way of tools.

To make a monochrome unit, one would have to use a solvent on the imager (after the IR filter is out of the way) to remove the color filter array. That part's not covered on link, I don't think.

Yes, raw shots processed without bayer interp. would be necessary for monochrome work.

Stan
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer

NIKON KIU
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: Washington DC USA

Post by NIKON KIU » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:53 pm

Hello people,
its ironic that Fuji introduces a new IR model of the S3 pro when we are talking about modifications to make one. all they did is remove the UV/IR filter. Said to be great for B&W too.
I read the review in this month's(NOVEMBER) issue of pop photo magazine.
Kiu
Lets talk Nikon

Anssi Krooks
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:45 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland
Contact:

Post by Anssi Krooks » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:53 am

NIKON KIU wrote:Hello people,
its ironic that Fuji introduces a new IR model of the S3 pro when we are talking about modifications to make one. all they did is remove the UV/IR filter. Said to be great for B&W too.
I read the review in this month's(NOVEMBER) issue of pop photo magazine.
Kiu
Hi!

It's the price difference. The new Fuji costs over $1800 and here in Finland you can get a decent used D70 for 450 euros. But it is nice that Fuji produces this special DSLR, maybe next a BW version of the S5 PRO? That would be something. ;)
D1X, DCS PRO SLR/n, DCS 760, DCS 420c & Canon Pro70

precertvideo
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:34 am
antispam: No
Location: England

Post by precertvideo » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:25 pm

You can also get an idea of how many were made from the serial numbers-example serial no. 420-1234;

-420 is the model number
-The last 4 numbers were individual so (unless there are any 5 figure numbers out there?) there must have been less than 10,000.
-I know serial no.s don't always run in sequence, but as mine is a 45xx number, there should be at least 4,500 others...What's the highest number anyone has got?

(I only have a 420 so other models may not be so easy.)

Jonathan
DCS serial no. survey
RC-760, EOS-1D & Ds Mk I, II, III, EOS*DCS-3, 5, DCS, DCS-200ci, 420, 460, D1, D1H & X, D2H & X, E2, F, F2, F3, F4, MVC-2000, 5000, 7000, RD-175, 3000, EF 50mm f/1.0, Audi S2, Porsche 911, GSX-R1000 K9

nik0web
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:34 am
Location: USA, Pittsburgh

Post by nik0web » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:04 am

Just as an update to the serial number tracking.:

I have a DCS420c with serial number 420-54xx. That adds about a 1000 more units to the count???

John
Keep your mirror up!

Post Reply